Off-Day Open Thread: Does Orlando Magic Coach Stan Van Gundy Need to Use His Bench More Often?
Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy talks to his team during a timeout. Van Gundy has been reluctant to play his reserves so far this season.
Photo by Fernando Medina, NBAE/Getty Images
Forgive me, but I'm about to quote something I wrote in last night's recap. Seems a bit daffy, but it has a point:
[Philadelphia] [c]oach Maurice Cheeks emptied his bench last night, playing all 12 men in uniform. Not a good strategy for a team now in a 2-4 hole and in bad need of cohesion.
In contrast, [Magic coach Stan] Van Gundy played a tight eight-man rotation, and the Magic had the look of a team nearly in mid-season form.
There's another way of looking at Stan's decision to only play Tony Battie, Keith Bogans, and Anthony Johnson off the bench last night. For instance, John Denton thinks it's dangerous to play an eight-man rotation in early November, especially when there are young players on the bench who need minutes to develop:
[J.J.] Redick got off to a slow start, got yanked from the rotation and it may be weeks before he plays meaningful minutes again. Even considering the depths of the past two seasons, his confidence is likely teetering on the brink.
[Courtney] Lee, the rookie who showed flashes of greatness in the preseason, has failed to get into four of the Magic's five games. The one game that he did play his jump shot was a mess admittedly because he had no rhythm from having played.
[Marcin] Gortat hasn't seen the floor since a forgettable 6-minute stint in the opener against Atlanta. He could have played at the start of Thursday's second quarter when Battie was winded, but instead Howard returned with two fouls. He soon picked up his third, sending a brief scare through Amway Arena.
As for [Brian] Cook, who has yet to play, he said he was sick and tired of the Magic's reasons as to why he hasn't gotten into a game yet. I find it very bizarre that he hasn't played considering how Orlando has struggled to score and shoot the ball from 3-point range so far. Clearly, Cook is on the trade block.
UPDATE: Brian Schmitz says J.J. was held out of last night's game with an injured left leg he suffered in pre-game warmups. It's unclear if he would have played if he were healthy, but his health is something to consider when evaluating Stan's rotation last night.
It's entirely possible, of course, that Stan just wanted to play the best possible lineup for his team's first nationally televised game of the season; Brian Schmitz notes that the entire team played with more energy than usual. But it's equally possible that he doesn't plan to play more than eight guys each night, in which case the Magic are going to be in a bit of trouble, say, next season, when they won't be able to rely on Bogans to play the swing positions off the bench. What of Redick and Lee then?
So, here's today's topic: how should Stan allocate minutes? Consider these questions in your response: Can the Magic afford to keep Redick and Lee glued to the bench? What about Gortat? Do Cook and his three-point shooting have a place in this rotation? Can the Magic succeed in the playoffs--assuming they make it there--while continuing to play Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Dwight Howard 37-plus minutes per game? And, in a somewhat different vein... do the Magic need to pursue an impact-level free agent? Antonio McDyess will be available soon, and the Magic could try to clear cap space--an obstacle for any transaction at this point--to sign him.
Final note: Trevor Ariza is killing it with the L.A. Lakers. We miss you, good buddy.
Comments
it’s the games where we’re clearly going to win/lose and svg still doesn’t clear the bench that frustrates me. happened a lot last year.
but yeah, 3 games is not enough for someone like jj, who as svg even said ‘just needs to hit one shot’. can’t hit a shot if you’re not on the fn floor. there’s also no way that the first 2 games can be put squarely on jj’s shoulders, either. there wasn’t a bright spot on the court, including dwight.
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by mhetrick14 on
Nov 7, 2008 2:35 PM EST
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I agree with SVG
Right now we need to start winning games. If only three guys are good enough to be in the rotation, than so be. Really, I don’t even think AJ is good enough to be in the rotation at this point.
Now, eventually, once the Magic starters find their groove, we need to start playing the bench more. Cut Battie’s minutes and play Cook behind him, with Gortat playing behind Howard, cut Bogans’ minutes and play Redick (sure, give him another chance, why not. It’s not like we really doubt he can shoot, right?), and see if we can’t phase AJ out completely with CLee. If CLee doesn’t work out at pg, than JJ misses out. We need CLee more at this point.
Really, I want to trade JJ+Cook for a pg to back up Nelson. Sergio Rodriguez anyone?
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on
Nov 7, 2008 3:59 PM EST
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Bench
… Phoenix did it, Magic can do it (deal with an 8-man rotation).
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Class of 2009 - DePaul University
by erivera7 on
Nov 7, 2008 4:41 PM EST
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I don't mind
For now. If this is what Stan feels we need to do to build a significant lead in the division then I’m all for it. Once we establish our lead then have at it SVG. I don’t mind the 8 man rotation. We’ve won 3 games straight, no complaints.
By the way, last year it looked like the Ariza trade was a wash. Now, we definitely got the short end. Oh well, I come to expect it as a Magic fan.
by magic fanatic on
Nov 7, 2008 6:31 PM EST
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I have no qualms about playing Dwight/Hedo/Lewis those minutes. I think lots of coaches make too big a deal over minutes these days.
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I generally hold two views about playing the bench in the summer:
(1) When there’s a lot of roster change I like the coach to keep a tight rotation and get his veterans acclimated before opening it up later on.
(2) When the team has been together for a decent period (like Orlando) then I like to see the young players play early. I like to see the coach give them crunch time minutes in the fourth quarter. Let’s the youngsters get an early understanding of what it takes to compete, helps their comfort if called upon later in the season to play a role, and helps the veterans belief in them (unless they suck). When Larry Bird was coaching the Pacers he did this to great effect and it boosted their bench tremendously.
There’s other issues on the Magic’s roster:
- Tony Battie – he’s working back from injury and needs game time. So unless SVG wants a big lineup with him a power forward, it’ll be difficult for Gortat to get minutes early. Foyle shouldn’t be playing at this stage of the season.
- Johnson is the only option at the point at the moment. I like playing young players early, but I don’t like playing them out of position (Lee). That’s two of your 3/4/5 man rotation off the bench.
- For my money Keith Bogans is the most dependable bench player the team has, and their best bench unless/until Battie returns to full strength. Normally I’d like to keep my 6th man on the court while playing with the youngsters. This is obviously a major complication. I consider this a judgement call, one I’d happily see go either way.
Personally, I’d like to see Redick and Lee playing ahead of Bogans for now … even though I’m not that comfortable with it. I just think they’re worth an opportunity. Bogans is an old hand, he’ll be ready when called upon.
by NBR on
Nov 7, 2008 8:52 PM EST
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At this stage of the season we should at least be using a ten man rotation, if you ask me. But right now we need wins more than time for the bench. When we’re killing teams maybe we can give the reserves a chance against our opponents bench to see what they’ve got.
by eltharion_doa on
Nov 8, 2008 12:51 AM EST
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Rotation
We have 3 new players and Battie who has not played under SVG’s system. Its gonna take some time to get the rotation right. But I’ve been disappointed in AJ. I think he is a 3rd string PG; not a 2nd. If Jameer goes down; AJ starts and then he is backed up by…Hedo?Lee? They’ve got to get another PG.
I’m over the Ariza trade. I was a big fan of his but he didn’t fit this system. We needed 2 players last year and Ariza got us those players. Evans was good for us and we got to the 2nd round. Ariza is a young player and is supposed to get better. Props for him working on his game but Otis had to make a move. Now about that JJ pick tho…
by L Magico on
Nov 8, 2008 1:19 AM EST
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